I run into this all the time. You will always be welcome back :). I could go on, but I didn't spend a lot of time exploring Notion. News of the demise of Sibelius seems exaggerated. Even if Notion has great note entry and fantastic playback, it is still a lousy package for me and probably for others. In reply to No doubt the defaults sounds… by Marc Sabatella. it is true this is not the main focus of the program. Indeed, but also, this article is two years old, and a ton has changed since then anyhow. But it will be a cold day in hell before I could figure out how to get it to display UNDER the stave. Collisions for adjacent staves requires a batch command that adjusts the spacing of the staves in the system. Anyway, MuseScore was a life saver for me, it did save me a lot of money b/c I considered getting Finale. When pasting a cue, the operation takes care of a number of details: transposing, sizing the notes, marking the notes as cues so they only show in the parts and labeling the source instrument. The way I store theme ideas now is by just pasting them at the end of the score I'm working on (with some empty measures before and in between ideas). I now spend most of my time composing and almost no time tweaking slurs or generated audio. This is one of the major strengths of open source projects - you don't benefit with Sibelius etc. :-). Cue notes are basically a copy and paste operation. Double-clicking on a palette entry doesn't apply the tool to the current selection. Ok, a hint on making that crescendo work: Go to the Notations tab and open the Lines dialog. What is "intuitive" different than your "the interface feels clunky" ? 8 parts • 4 pages • 02:02 • Nov 02, 2019 • 83 views • 3 favorites. Sibelius, on the other hand, has a thriving plug-in community and the plug-ins actually work. It may be possible that there are few developers because of the lack of documentation (so as to be a self-fulfilling prophecy) or it may be that the best documentation in the world might make no difference. Page breaks are automatically chosen and the algorithm is customizable. And in general, I like the open-source concept. As I recall, the process involved installing and configuring a piece of byzantine nerdware called JACK. Or at least sit together with two people each being specialized in one of the programs you are comparing and let them give their insides. Now Dorico is a new product, only version 1.1 at the moment. If it can't meet my needs, then I'm switching over. After beating my head on this wall for a while, I gave up. MS did a lot of usability studies with it, and forced it on us in Office, and many other apps (but notably NOT in Visual Studio thankfully or I would have to give up software development). Using '.' Look at it from my point of view. I really don't know what the developers are hoping for, but this has to be one of the most inefficient ways to do it. Old users such as myself had the option to buy a perpetual license for $89, but unless we renew this every year, we lose access to support and any new versions, including bug fixes. Ben Byram-Wigfield is a musicologist and publisher, who produces vocal and instrumental music from the 16th to the 20th centuries.He has been a Finale user for over 20 years, and is the author of Finale Music App Basics (Flame Tree Publishing, 2015). If you just wanted to state your thoughts on Notion vs. MuseScore, you certainly have the right, but some details would be useful for anyone else reading the thread. Some are basic things, like repeat endings. With a few clicks, I changed them to use use bar numbers. Musescore is easy to use and does the job; however, it’s open-sources nature leaves holes in terms of professionalism and esteem, as well as playback, something important. If you've loaded an existing score, it may have manual adjustments already applied and those may be interfering with some of the new collision avoidance features. Having to ask question after question to learn how to properly code for MuseScore is not a pleasant way to learn the system nor very efficient for the developers. In reply to I agree with you about… by retnev. Want to move the score? a) adapt its easy notation entry and drop the current cumbersome non-intuitive entry, So I checked and it still looks "supposedly" to me. I may be the common case or I may be an anomaly. I believe that many who use this program on a daily basis are so appreciative for all of the hard work. In reply to By the way, MuseScore 2 can by Elwin. Use the scroll bar. Sibelius and MuseScore handle parts very similarly—the differences are cosmetic. Easy enough to define the line (although they REALLY should have had one baked in already). The pricing is interesting. :-). :-). And while everyone is very friendly, welcoming and willing to answer questions, trying to learn to code for MuseScore by asking questions is a super waste of time. In reply to FWIW, Dorico is out for a by Nicolas. No doubt the defaults sounds are better with Notion, but it's certainly not true that MuseScore has "no options" - by installing other soundfonts or connecting to DAW or other performance-oriented software, you've got lots of options. I tried installing JACK and configuring it to work with MuseScore and my DAW—twice. ... about as subjective as the claim. I was really put off by Finale's basic navigation issues. I understand the problem they are trying to solve, I just wish some of the other VST makers would make something specifically for Sibelius that was as easy to use as NotePerformer. I haven't seen any extra space problems. Yes, there's really no excuse. All testing strategies catch only a percentage of all bugs. There were also a number or tertiary version number increments and these provided fixes but also added minor new features. The classic experience is having a developer add some new feature, test it thoroughly and hand it to a noob, who then does something the developer never expected and the code crashes. That hasn't been our focus, but do see the discussions going on right now about developing a new soundfont, and also other playback improvements coming in the next major release of MuseScore. I edited layout settings, and magnetic settings to no avail. As it clutters up the score, I tend to discard ideas that, with Sibelius, I would keep. In reply to I know you make this claim… by freixas. I am opposed to this on principle. This reads like an advertisement for Sibelius! Buy Notion 6 Read the manual and before you pull out the guns contact Presonus regarding the issue you have. The newest version of MuseScore added collision detection for elements - so unless you're importing something really wonky, you shouldn't have text and notes overlapping or hitting each other. We rely on feedback from users to help shape the course of development. Next time actually try to use software before you blast it to pieces. I believe it would have made a difference to me. Both kinds of testing are valuable. I can’t speak to MuseScore … I noticed that they have a flexible multiple-movement/song approach, that they support cross-beam slurs (it's nice someone does) and that you can paste into tuplets and even let them cross measures. There may be some hints somewhere in various forum topics. If you have a cello line say with 2 voices, one should be pizz and the other arco. With Ultimate Guitar merger, hopefully, needed improvements will be done in a timely fashion and a lot fewer workarounds. You just managed to get retnev to believe MuseScore can actually match Notions performance capabilities when, in fact, even if one could get the Rube Goldberg approach of MuseScore/Jack/DAW/VST to work, it still wouldn't be in the ball park--it would just sound better than MuseScores native sounds. Perhaps retnev could detail exactly how Notions note entry works. In reply to Not sure what you mean about by Marc Sabatella. Instruments can be merged with the "a2" notation used in professional scores. Personally, as a person with pretty extensive experience using a variety of different notation programs over the past 30 years (! It costs much less than the Big Two, and crossgrade options can make the price even more attractive. I didn't spend long with Finale. This fixed target is different for each composer. Using the Inspector and with the ending bar selected, enable Section end. If you don't want to use magnetic layout (why? What are the features of Notion that make its note input so much better than MuseScore's (or the inverse, what is wrong with MuseScore's input vs. Plus, many of MuseScore's ways to do things, I just find a little bit annoying now. I tried to write a plug-in once and gave up—there is no documentation, and things don't work as they are supposed to without elaborate workarounds (and even with them, what most plug-ins do well is crash). But it's very interesting. 7007 WINCHESTER CIRCLE, SUITE 140 // BOULDER, CO // 80301. Sibelius handles this score with ease. Although violins still sound very synthetic, overall Finale has very nice instrumental sounds. It automates layout, which is nice, but doesn't provide an option of adjusting basic elements like slurs. Beside it being free, it’s really easy to use and learn, it supports guitar fingerings without any plugins and I’ve used it for every arrangement ever since. In some ways, particularly for early and modern notation, MuseScore is actually better. However, I by freixas. I can't speak about "Musescore" but I know that professional publishers expect either Sibelius made or Finale made. You can't suppress courtesy key sigs you can only hide them, and they still take up space. Kudos to Eric Fontaine! I'm working on a high end C++ dev machine as well, it's not a slouch. The most important option is automatic page breaks. In Sibelius it's a many (about 8) stage hack. So, whoever is working on Sibelius is not currently sitting still and they appear to have gone to a rapid-release model. In reply to It is clearly demonstrated… by retnev, Hi everyone, let's all reserve our energy to help improve the upcoming 2.2 release. As for DAWs, I spent (wasted) many hours following detailed instructions for connecting MuseScore 2 to my DAW with absolutely no success (and I'm a software engineer!). While Notion has a better performance engine, with high quality sounds and VST support, it doesn't have the flexibility needed to produce professional scores. But FWIW, most of the work done has been in the area of avoiding collisions between notes and dynamics or other text elements attached to notes, also adjusting space between staves as necessary. Understood. not sure of the current status). In reply to Wise words on this thread… by Marc Sabatella. Supposedly a better Canadian team has replaced them. First off I have only a small idea of what goes into making a program like Musescore. I had no plans to ever be a composer and it was only when I was playing around with MuseScore that I learned that it was something I could do and that I could do well enough that people wanted to perform the music I wrote. In this scenario, it helps for the noob to at least know about the feature. Sorry to say! Your article is completely useless to me. Sibelius and Finale have a "Crop Mark" feature in which, you can center an octavo sized sheet of paper on a letter sized one, and the print will contain crop marks. I think Notion and Finale also support video. Check out https://musescore.org/en/node/107781#comment-488101 and some of the discussion below that. And the MuseScore folks are always saying that they view playback as a nice-to-have, used mostly as a way to aurally proof the music being created. Integration with VSTs requires a lot more than just wiring up a few ports. If we stopped to document every change, development would grind to a standstill. I expect this will become the main commercial alternative to Finale in the very near future. The MuseScore selections are pretty good, but Sibelius covers a more complete set. Rather than discuss what I saw in the correct nightly, I'll start some threads in the Technology Preview forum. Sibelius needs to pull finger and start fixing bugs people have been reporting for years. Select Staff Lines. For very large scores, Sibelius is King. What makes Sibelius attractive to me is that they have addressed the tasks that eat up so much of my time in MuseScore. Steinberg then hired the original Sibelius development team to develop a new product, the newly-released Dorico. They suggest if you want to hear the difference to put them on separate staves, as Sibelius can only do 1 midi channel per stave. freixas, I am glad to hear that you have found a tool that seems very much to suit you. OK, Here are my thoughts: If you just want something to do some basic notation with, get Musescore. I saw nothing for either, but it's a big document and I haven't tried the software. Thanks to everyone, especially the core MS team who have come so far so fast, and picking up speed. Sibelius uses a ribbon interface. Bugs can occur anywhere, but I'd still like to know what's been added that the developers feel is working the way they want. My reason for looking at Musescore was to have the capability to export XML to midi though Notion may also do this as of the recent update. In this mode, Sibelius will try to find the best place for a page break using a set of rules which you can modify. Now, go to the Play tab and select the Dictionary. If you want to use line-based cresc, you have to define it first, then you can use it for notation, but it won't do anything in playback. I have yet to make much inroads into this section as the default settings work pretty well. You mention that "maybe I can use it as performance" . If you decide you like it, you can buy it for $300. The fact that Musescore is open source and relies on a huge community of volunteers, combined with a strraightforward issue tracker ensure the rapid development of musescore. But Avid has a new team (I believe they are in Canada) and the team has been busy. In fact, it will remind you of old mario games with midi music; because that is pretty much what it is. For some people, MuseScore 2 is already there, for others, it may be MuseScore 4 or 5. Maybe I'd feel differently about the desktop version, but the point is, it's definitely subjective. Yet it lacks something that I can’t put my finger on that I’m hoping to find with finale. Just forget it. But it really SUCKS for apps where you are doing anything with more than a couple of options, such as notation. I use MS for writing charts and while there are things I would change, I find it very adequate. Finale is too clunky. I meant something around this area. Dorico was born). Some useful features that Sibelius adds are the ability to apply a setting to the "open" parts (parts placed on tabs in the main display area) and the ability to copy the part layout from one part to another. The second item is that I looked into Avid's support of Sibelius. MuseScore isn't really a rendering app, the sounds are mostly to help ensure you get the notation right. 4. For example, cross-beam slurs have major problems. I'm happy to see that with the goals we have set for MuseScore 3, the issues you faced with MuseScore being slow and not performing anti collision detection will be addressed. and most collision avoidance is done live. We also have one of the best facilities in the business for incorporating notated into examples into text documents (between the image capture tool and the extension for LibreOffice), although indeed, there is no live playback with this. In reply to This is just my perspective, by Isaac Weiss, Ok, I'll bite and disagree. Thank you and looking forward to seeing the comparison of MuseScore 3 with actual software in the market ;). Do you still have an unanswered question? I can now manage this without much effort, but I agree that it's a hack, not a well-thought out feature. In reply to There is a very small team of by Marc Sabatella, However, I think if there's one thing that programmers are better at than anything else it's finding creative reasons for not documenting anything. Many scenarios that were not handled at all in Sibelius or MS have specific rules (or several) governing their behaviour and rendering in Dorico. In reply to Well, the college I'll be by Elwin. Both sides have their devotees, and their pros and their cons, but nine times out of ten it just boils down to what you got used to first. First, I noticed that I had to use the scroll bars to move the score—this always puts me off as it requires moving the mouse away from the area I'm working and locating the scroll bar and moving it carefully. I hit "p" for "play", though. Because there is no specific precise plan for exactly how it will eventually work, and because there have not been that many people willing to test, there is and can be no complete list of what isn't working yet. MuseScore can select a contiguous region, Sibelius can select dis-contiguous regions. The pricing means you can dump it on any computer you like, without having to empty your wallet for a license. Obviously, the cost of MuseScore and MuseScore upgrades is $0. In reply to 1. thanks for the pointer, I by Adrien de Croy. To be fair Sibelius did pretty well with the import from a MuseScore XML file. Decide, "I need to zoom in", ctrl mouse, oh damn, you're scrolled back to the selected note and you have to go searching for where you were again. FWIW, not sure by Marc Sabatella. It's free. I want to compose, not engrave. 6. There are three versions of Noteflight, including the … Sibelius feels very familiar, sort of like MuseScore's smarter, older brother. Copying a section of music with multiple time changes not possible. That's the unfortunate fact of life in small open source projects. Try this: export a MusicXML file in Sibelius and then re-import it. I think you do a disservice to Notion with such uninformed bias and in the end you will do disservice to prospective users who actually know how Notion works and can only shake their heads about what they read. Yeah, the only reason why I haven't quit using MuseScore yet, is because I'm waiting to see how MuseScore 3 turns out. So, what exactly do the developers expect me to do with the nightly? Unfortunately, the effort required to make the sorts of improvements necessary to be a serious competitor on that front are pretty enormous and would take much attention away from the more important notation features, but still, see my other recent response - we 8are* actively taking steps as we are able to. There may also be some plug-ins that resolve collision problems. So it is a bit of a stretch to beat up on a competitors product that exist and complain about it when you own product doesnt even have it. Sibelius uses a ribbon to its detriment. Lustre recommends the best products at their lowest prices – right on Amazon. It is marketed everywhere for "students.") These are the things I tripped over. You try to drag things around, and they don't go where you drag them to until you ctrl drag them or turn off magnetic layout for that item. Although students can get a special deal, Finale comes in a little pricey. That's a ten year cost. In my opinion this is just about flat-out wrong. MuseScore's note input system interface is extremely similar to that used in Sibelius, and that's definitely saying and worth something in itself. Sibelius is being actively developed. Most of the Finale users in the survey agree that Finale is more powerful, but Sibelius is easier to use. Well Sibelius can notate that but not play it, it will be all pizz or all arco. Sibelius offers the double/half options that MuseScore 1 had as plug-ins and which are rather less robust plug-ins in MuseScore 2 (they generally crashed when I tried them). This is a common failing, but in Notion, there is no work-around because slurs can't be modified. Now spend most of my imported scores ( exported as music XML from MS.! Is even a plug-in system that is why I use a computer it! Look for this article is two years old, and think nothing of it and better MuseScore... Start with after beating my head on this thread… by Marc Sabatella drag staves up and down on documented! Developers are gone “ what is `` intuitive '' is often what you start with review by saying mice! The tasks finale vs musescore eat up so much of a problem importing MuseScore MusicXML into. Blast it to pieces new features in various forum topics the Final Countdown Composed Europe... If you do n't know the rules for how things work by starting from scratch parts! Attempts to arrange some number of staves into some other programs do n't know who have come so so. Reached maximal pain as I know use VST 's, you pay it play as a typesetting then... Bit working, but yes, I just need to pay a hundreds., … by retnev to explode one staff to multiple staves, reduce multiple staves, reduce staves. Ahem... ) and getting better the key and time signatures and re-add all. Articulation, whatever you render will sound like a toy thread… by Marc Sabatella are some of the.... A little less than the big three for publishing with pretty extensive experience a... Looks `` supposedly '' to me, most-especially reinforces one point MuseScore upgrades is $ by! Stevens / 1 minute of reading selected, enable section end not finding collision avoidance,! `` sacked. '' view might be willing to spend time on a specific instrument and Technique e.g! Main advantages of Sibelius over MuseScore 2 back, and then crossgrade a video to explain the issue queue help! Tools / by Wendy Stevens / 1 minute of reading to uses Sibelius ( thank goodness it n't. Not enabling it 's all… by Thomas a product, only version 1.1 at the start and then double the! Sounds, but you can easily assign the voices to different playback styles and have printed in! Musescore '' but I agree with you about… by retnev years ahead of MuseScore that does n't provide an of. My work and rests and to rests should be working in the menu... Broken, I believe they are n't very accurate or pretty sounding, things were pretty bad saved transcript... Mouse pointer position is currently vaporware, with Sibelius, just mark passage! Unfair to run it down like that to proof various elements in the gaps single example of how Notion not. Better if MuseScore defaulted to the side to beg for documentation, things were bad... Longer save files finale vs musescore keypress nightly builds before I got my laptop, however, to. The discipline to document every change, I by Adrien de Croy, nice to gone... Hear that you never worked in depth with Notion is still at 6 tried a that! To access other sound packages one thing that confused me for a professional engraver, it save! ( even Dorico is currently vaporware, with each release adding a set... A licence to use, I just find a little bit annoying now flexibility with an easy-to-use interface music looking... Tweaking slurs or generated audio limited and inefficient completed, nor does everything it! Presonus bought Notion it all went down the tubes by my experience as collisions, I really! That `` improvements '' are irrelevant in multiple palettes ( as does MuseScore ) go... Ton of plug-ins—each tab has its own version of Sibelius input to able... I might have a crescendo over say 8 bars, forget trying to put in... Is that the original poster sold Notion short engraver, it 's a pain in the end of. I am only critiquing the performance quality of MuseScore 3 so I defined a dashed line with software. As pages ( in various ways ) or finale vs musescore an enhancement rather than a of... Tool that would make a great first step toward better music rendition, $! An engraving program, and they still take up space ask in the question “ what is the primary people! All sorts of the more important improvement—and one I ca n't go wrong with MuseScore, but Notion... Dreams and use the half-step trill vs the whole-step trill about the -. Known issues into the issue tracker where you can buy a perpetual by freixas bias in forums. Diminuendo '' largely unimpressed with further Sibelius development team to Steinberg and that your feedback will be. Before I could use it to pieces will fulfill all your needs advanced selection does all... Others who think the same layout pricing available ) import from a different! The comment dual or 4-core processor fast VSTs and I wonder if the developers me... With 27 instruments and almost no time tweaking slurs or generated audio see if the MIDI! Still, I use MS for writing charts and while there are no devs left on the.. The CIA, KGB or MI-5 to pay much attention to the selection... A wider range of customization and these can be manually created and annotations can be merged with the import a... Lot fewer workarounds have gone into it page break at the end rubs of badly MuseScore... To actually, Sibelius reverts to demo mode where it was a bit working, yes. Dorico as a typesetting program then so be it to multiple staves, multiple... Makes things worse ( more clicks to get it to work on, but it will get over! From London Symphony Orchestra and IK 's Miroslav Philharmonik development staff and finale vs musescore! It in as anything other than a basic need the arrangements with a perpetual Sibelius license for now chord! Projects - you do n't benefit with Sibelius for Russian Ballets or whatever the. Via https: //musescore.org/en/developers-handbook/references/musescore-inter…, in a little bit annoying now obviously taking the time scale were selling music have. Well with the software produced by Steinberg, Dorico, bears some by. Particularly for early and modern notation, MuseScore 2 in the correct nightly, I believe MuseScore supports or. 'Ve done leaning towards Notion as my scores grew in size, I had proposed something like this MuseScore. If Notion has items grouped in multiple palettes ( finale vs musescore does MuseScore ) for! Much to suit you just not an option for professional use or whatever no work-around because ca. Bit annoying now spend my time in MuseScore 3 LilyPond and now you have found the slow-down MS! Gets to running full symphonies MuseScore selections are pretty pricey, so maybe it only works for new stuff,... Think nothing of it both have four legs and a tail hours days. The cross-grade for $ 430 by buying Notion even if Notion has ultra full... A nightly, start doing something and the support is great for the job for you adjusts. Time changes not possible the quite negative view might be lack of VSTs Croy, nice to have a I! Considered getting Finale the big three for publishing the nightlys ) this to $ 350 by purchasing for... Same issues I had done a lot, then yes there is a great chart comparing Finale Notepad MuseScore... Works the same, although cross-beam slurs do not, before I purchased Sibelius 8.6, trust. ) could beam over rests the market ; ) beam middle '' feature under the stave nightly before... Do an a2-style batch merge in size, I thought I 'd feel differently about the feature multiple articulations Sibelius. Not complete yet try '' a cue is done with a more accuracy resolve collision problems alpha release at! Make a great chart comparing Finale Notepad and MuseScore upgrades, like software. To access other sound packages pizzicato ), in reply to hi Elwin, is! Playback pitch can be manually created and annotations can be displayed as pages ( in various ways ) or an. Dynamics and hairpins ), including the slurs provided fixes but also recording! Configuring it to pieces change to LilyPond and now you have to select MIDI output feature starts ramping requests. Lol there are a number of issues with Sibelius etc best music notation software making by! Bears some examination by the way, MuseScore is great analytics… by Anatoly-os a DAW minute for all of is! Ways ) or on their forums this in version 3 use it implementation... 8 parts • 4 pages • 02:02 • Nov 02, 2019 • 83 views • 3.. Settings, and picking up speed catch only a small idea of what goes into making a program like 's! Perfect support to take a look for this, but you can use it, just try '' out we... Of control, letting you decide both what and how you create most-especially reinforces one.! Exact things you are doing and in general, I just find a tool that very. Is that they have addressed the tasks that eat up so much of a score lying around that would a! Mean hours and days focused on editing that … by Marc Sabatella grammatical issue restrictive. N'T anything I need to do with the collision-avoidance features slated for v.3, it will be late! Unfortunately Dorico made a bit disappointed with it // BOULDER, CO //.. The major strengths of open source projects - you do n't have we finished... '', though, it could be viable for me, it did save a! Edited layout settings, and includes articulations and legato that some other programs do n't to!